Curse

Psychic Watch · May 27, 2007, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

::Embarrassingly wrong information::

First of all, allow me to introduce you to an item on page 2 of this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by October Jade

Sorry, you are dead wrong. I got all my necro and monk headgear from the desert collectors, and they came with an inherent +1 energy. That bonus disappeared yesterday.

These and other class headgear from collectors were perfectly equal substitutes for any craftable headgear, both in armor amount and inherent mods.

But now we have lost the inherent +1 energy on these items. Worse still, the energy bonus cannot be re-added with an insignia, since for some inexplicable reason Anet decided to exclude these particular items from accepting insignias.

To add insult to injury, the existing max headgear people have been using, which may already have been infused, dyed, or had runes added, need to be replaced. This is inexcusable.

Nomen Mendax · May 27, 2007, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

It's my understanding that collector armor did not receive insignias because people could trade 5 collector items for the armor, and turn around and sell the insignia for a few plat. That would not have done wonders for the Insignia market.

Also, collector armor is far cheaper than the armor you have crafted for you. Insignias are bonuses, and if you choose to spend the money on crafted armor, you are spending gold to have access to those bonuses. It's like paying a little extra for the larger engine option in a car.

It's unfortunate that some of the collector items lost a few mods, but if that’s the price to add insignias to Prophecies and Factions armor without endangering the economy or creating imbalance within it, wouldn't you say its a price worth paying?

(my bold)

I'm guessing that if it happened to your armour the answer to that question would probably be no. Also, is the "big grin" smiley really the appropriate one to put at the end of that question?

Faer · May 27, 2007, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Learn to kite. See how I did that right there?

Learn to PvE: go naked.

Such silly arguments people have around here about such a straight-forward portion of the game.

Anyway, huzzah for the Insignias! Another huzzah for the retroactive application of the system! Subtract a huzzah for the way some Hero armors were screwed up with the update, and subtract a huzzah for how long it took ArenaNet to do this in the first place...

And add a huzzah because they actually bothered to do it at all!

(What, did you honestly think I was going to let that break even?

)

Lonesamurai · May 27, 2007, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I couldn't agree with you more on this as I had dyed,infused armour with runes on it and now it is useless.I imagine there several hundreds of players who have been affected by this those who bought -lvl20 armour say in LA that are very casual players.I guess it really does pay to get runs to Droks,KC and the Docks in Kamaden instead of the substandard armour you get else where.There should be a price fix on all insignias they aren't runes.You don't need runes to play the game but you do need insignias.

You mean several hundred bots...

Again, deal with it

Ensign · May 27, 2007, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Not allowing insignia on collector armor was a flat out mistake from whoever made that design decision. All old armor was being grandfathered in, regardless of source, and the collectors would be giving out blank armor in the future. Previously max armor (particularly helmets) was slagged by the change. Are the runes invested in them at least salvagable now? I reject any of the points about price out of hand. The weapons given out by collectors regularly cost 5k to craft, and that's not considered any sort of economic problem - why is giving away a 1.5k piece of armor suddenly an issue?

Removing bonuses from lower leveled armors is more open for debate, and I'll give A.Net the benefit of the doubt there. It's not the intention of the update to give a big windfall to a level 5 character who just bought new armor. They do get hit with a bit of a loss, but you're looking at a temporary suit of armor anyway.

On the subject of putting Insignia on a market economy, I don't see it as being particularly different from having runes on a market economy, and it being a good change for the game overall. The only significant difference is the history - since Insignia used to be built in, they ended up being cheaper in a couple of cases, and the whining now is coming from the net price increase on those sets. That has nothing to do with the mechanic itself though.

I find the complaints funny in the face of the best PvE insignias almost universally being cheaper under the insignia system than the built-in system. +health is a PvP set, or a swap for when you're picking up DP - a luxury in the latter case. While +energy is useful for 55 farming, it's a scrub set a vast majority of the time during party play - no, going from 72 to 80 max energy during a crunch is not a strong use of your insignias. Virtually every character can get a strong +10 armor bonus for less 500g per armor piece - why they aren't taking advantage of that, I can only guess.

Peace,
-CxE

LifeInfusion · May 27, 2007, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Given the 27.3% chance of attacks hitting the headgear when there is a high attack (according to the official wiki), I think I'm going to replace the collector's headgears even if it is going to cost me a boatload of money...

The only reason to ever use the collector's headgear was to alleviate the insane amount of headgears you need for swaps (since there are 4-5 attributes to swap between for every profession) not the Radiant +1 energy that is barely even affecting you.

It was nice to have 60 armor for essentially a pile of collector drops that you were going to sell to the merchant anyway.

O well. That's essentially 1plat a piece + materials + insignia each...times the number of collector headgears you had.

manitoba1073 · May 27, 2007, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

You mean several hundred bots...

Again, deal with it

Yes cause its so hard for bots just to go ut buy new ones, while the players just easily replaces them.

Age · May 27, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

You mean several hundred bots...

Again, deal with it

Wrong I am talking about real players in the game as bots get a run to Droks and get the good stuff well real players use LA tats.I am just not talking about farmers here I am talking about any player who bought substandard armour put runes on and dyed it.Take a big drink of Coffee and read what I said.

Spazzer · May 27, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psychic Watch

Inherent mods on existing items should not be removed, and absolutely not removed if there is no way to replace them.

When I saw the update and read the notes, I was still on the old build.

I know someone out there bought 50 pairs of Shing Jea gloves with the +1 energy mod on it. I was going to do the same thing. :]

Now, which is more fair? Someone making 70k, or someone spending an extra 1.5k?

I lost my +energy mods on my headgears, too, but it's totally worth it to me if I can have +hp Sacred armor. :]

Psychic Watch · May 27, 2007, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

I know someone out there bought 50 pairs of Shing Jea gloves with the +1 energy mod on it. I was going to do the same thing. :]

Now, which is more fair? Someone making 70k, or someone spending an extra 1.5k?

There is a simple way they could have avoided this hypothetical "sell millions of pre-insignia items" problem - DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT EXISTING COLLECTOR ITEMS. They would still have their inherent mods, and no one "profits" from selling salvaged insignias.

I couldn't care less about someone making a profit from overpriced insignias anyway. As if those are a driving factor in the economy...

Spending 1.5k? Oh wait, I need 4 of them since I switch between different attribute builds. What's that? I need to do 4 infusion quests too? I'll just get right on that. They were dyed? Good thing those dyes are exempt from loot scaling... Ah yes, I had runes in those items as well. Glad I have all this extra gold laying around since it doesn't drop any more..................

DKS · May 28, 2007, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psychic Watch

Ah yes, I had runes in those items as well.

So what exactly is preventing you from salvaging the runes from them? You so hard up you can't afford an expert salvage kit?

Mr.Bimble · May 28, 2007, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Not awesome at all. NF SUX,so does its bloody armour. Factions had it right.Insignias are not freely available. They are not always for sale.They rely apparently, on finders selling them to the rune trader. Its ok for runes,but how can you make a set of armour for a 55 necro or monk if the insignia is unavailable to stick on it?The insignia should have been left the way it was. It gave us a choice. Now it can only be done one way.What sort of improvement is that?

Cebe · May 28, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

I'm overall pleased with the change, gives me an option to put right my mistake with my first set of 15k armor. I'm not sure about the issue with Collector's armor. In my experience, collecting the things you need for a whole set is a pain in the arse...especially in cantha, where you need 10 Venerable Mantid Pincers. If they were to make collector's armor inscribable my prediction is we would see a load of E/R Obsidian Flesh farmers farming the Mantids outside Nahpui Quarter, selling 5 pincers for around 800-900g anyway...thus making 2 pieces of collector's armor not a great deal cheaper than the crafter.

Mr.Bimble · May 28, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

"Argue all you want about insignas being "better" since you can switch at will, but for people that DONT switch stats on their armor this market based crap is just putting extra cost into stuff a lot of us can barely afford as it is."
This was a quote.

Insignia can be switched at will? I thought it had to be salvaged,with the risk of breakage.

Draikin · May 28, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psychic Watch

These and other class headgear from collectors were perfectly equal substitutes for any craftable headgear, both in armor amount and inherent mods.

But now we have lost the inherent +1 energy on these items. Worse still, the energy bonus cannot be re-added with an insignia, since for some inexplicable reason Anet decided to exclude these particular items from accepting insignias.

To add insult to injury, the existing max headgear people have been using, which may already have been infused, dyed, or had runes added, need to be replaced. This is inexcusable.

I didn't realize this before but this is really disappointing news. I was using multiple collector headgears on a lot of my PvE characters...

-Loki- · May 28, 2007, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Wrong I am talking about real players in the game as bots get a run to Droks and get the good stuff well real players use LA tats.

You're an idiot. No one uses Droknars Tats for 55 farming, because it's retarded. You need the lowest possible armour so prot spirit triggers every single time. They get run to Droknars to get power levelled.

arcanemacabre · May 28, 2007, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Bimble

Insignia can be switched at will? I thought it had to be salvaged,with the risk of breakage.

Exactly. I sure as hell ain't gonna chance losing my 15k (or better) armor just to pull the Radiant off and put on a Stalwart. I will either have an entirely different set of armor (which defeats the purpose), or I'll overwrite the Radiant and effectively lose 1.5-1.8k in the process (the price of low-level armor/secondary set, also defeating the purpose).

Now, this would all be nice if we really could [interchange] the insignias, switching them out instead of overwriting them. Also, to add to that, let them stack. I wouldn't mind carrying a stack of 5 Stalwart, 5 Survivor, 5 Radiant, 5 Whatever-class-specific, etc. rather than each 'set' taking up 5 spaces. Thanks for the extra storage Anet, now how about stackable insignias?

-Loki- · May 28, 2007, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

1.5-1.8k in the process (the price of low-level armor/secondary set, also defeating the purpose).

You realise they've already dropped to 1.1k now, right? And they will keep dropping until they drop below 500g. The same thing happened when Nightfall released. All the scrubs rushed out to get radiant insignia, and the price spiked. After a week or so, they dropped back below 500g.

arcanemacabre · May 28, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

You realise they've already dropped to 1.1k now, right? And they will keep dropping until they drop below 500g. The same thing happened when Nightfall released. All the scrubs rushed out to get radiant insignia, and the price spiked. After a week or so, they dropped back below 500g.

No, I don't realize, but how does that invalidate my actual point? Oh, it doesn't.

-Loki- · May 28, 2007, 10:33 AM // 10:33

For the rare occasion you would swap insignia (mainly since there's no need), which will cost around 1k to do in a few days when the prices have settled, you'd rather lose 4 - 5 slots in your inventory, as well as need to buy new superior vigors for those extra sets?